i can see you go all out for the haida art so do i but i need to put more on my account

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Zedkhov,

Not sure if anyone answered your question yet, but what you're looking for is called a flexible curve. Check it out here [link]

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wow.. your gallery is absolutly amazing

im definatly going to learn a thing or two from your art



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Hey,

No worries. I have a few other books that help, one is Looking at Indian Art of the Northwest Coast by Hilary Stewart, which is fantastic. I know I didn't have to take it down, but i am not happy with the painting, I knew doing native art is difficult even when working from another image, but I had a great difficulty getting the shapes and curves symmetrical. Like I said the painting was an exercise anyways so no worries. Yea the paint I got looks great in person, like real copper, but obviously did not pick up well on the camera oh well.

Thanks for the great info and the tips and great talkin to you. I have a question for you, my father used to do some native art and says there is a tool called a snake, or something similar which you can bend so that you can make the curves and shapes perfect in the artwork. I was wondering if you know anything about that or if it has a different name or something because I could not find reference to it whenever I looked

Cheers,

Z

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those jim gilbert books are a great start and it is what we use to start teaching our youth to learn the basics, there are some others and the best place to get them in vic is the museum gift shop.


and I dont think it was nessesay for you to take down that pic and I would have liked to see the copper version, after looking at your gallery I had a feeling you never just stole the image because you have some good work in there, but this is DA so I had to check

by the way, i was wondering if you could reference some good books on native art for me? I love studying it and since its everywhere around me here in Vic I would like to know more about it.

cheers,

Z

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hey, I decided to remove that painting you commented on, I had always intended to say it was one of Jim Gilberts drawings.

It was done for a exercise in class studying color and since I don't think its a good painting of mine anyways, I figure I would remove it so as to not cause any unintentional trouble. Thank you for posting and reminding me to put the credit up.

Cheers,

Z

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Thx for the Fav bud.

Thank you very much for this reply.

At the moment, I like adhering to the strict guidelines of the style. I find it enjoyable to try fitting non-traditional subjects into this strict form to see far I can go without actually breaking the rules.

I think what is up for debate right now is not whether to follow the guidelines of the art style, because I'm fine with that, but how I should label the results of my experimentation and whether I should be using these rules at all.

And I don't know what I think yet. I don't have a lot of motivation to continue right now, since most of what I've gotten out of it lately has been annoyance, anger, warnings, and condemnation. I might get back into it later but at the moment I'm busy enough with other things to put it aside.

Thanks again. I'll be thinking about this.

If you really feel that you should adhere to the strict guidelines of the art form, then by all means do so. What really matters is whether or not you think it looks good and if you are happy with your creation. Deviations on dA trend quite heavily on the borders of art styles all the time. People have different ways of drawing things and I feel that people should draw in the style they enjoy, regardless of what boundaries they are stomping on. How do think art has progressed throughout the ages. Some of it can be contributed to new tools and mediums, but most styles of art today are really derivatives of older art styles. These people decided not to let the bounds of art styles get in the way or stop them from doing what they wanted to do. This is true in music, too. Music has progressed because people wanted to rebel from the old style or modify it in a way that pleased them. Jazz, rap, rock, and pop all came into being because someone felt like breaking the rules a little bit.

Here's what I'm trying to say: Don't let others get in the way of your art. It's perfectly alright if you consult people for ideas or help with your art, but never let your art be manipulated to the point where it's not yours anymore. If you want to stay within the guidelines of formline design, then that's your call. But don't feel that because someone told you that you can't draw what you want because it doesn't follow the "rules", you have to listen to them. As was said above, even those who are "following" the rules break them from time to time. Don't let the ideas, restrictions, and prejudices of others become your art.

I don't think my question has any simple answers, but I was looking for a viewpoint, and you provided one. Thank you.

tarkheki considers imaginary creatures to be a sort of loophole - I'm not sure why exactly - but even then she asked permission from some authority and was given a condition under which she was allowed to draw them. I think she is very traditionally-minded, or at least wants to be.

I'm familiar with the concept of appropriation and I think that describes it quite well. Appropriating stuff is kind of human nature, but I would tend to avoid doing it without a good reason, and I don't think I have a good reason.

I'd agree with you about art not being "traditional" unless it arises from a situation within the traditional social order. Hearing you say that does make me rethink what exactly I am doing and plan to do, as it is not traditional but is simply made, more or less, within the purely formal constraints of a certain visual style that happens to be traditionally significant in a specific societal context. It wouldn't be "native art" in any sense - not that I ever thought it would be, but that does clarify things a bit.

I've never intended to make money off of my art in this style - not sure how that would work, really. A couple people have told me that I should try selling it, or that they'd want a tattoo of it, but I have no intention of doing that sort of thing.

I don't know what I'm going to do. I feel no particular compulsion to release my velociraptor at this point. In fact, the thought of seeing it sitting in my dA gallery sickens me a little. Though I also don't like the Haida-lisk being the only representative of my exploration of the style, seeing as there are a lot of things I don't like about the piece and I've since learned a lot more about the rules of formline design. I suppose it's too late to get rid of that one though, now that it's out.

I won't go so far as to regret ever getting into this style, as there's no escaping it now, and admittedly, it's been a valuable experience overall. But man, this is going to be a lot of work. Not the drawing itself, but finding my way through this mess.

Thanks for sharing your advice. It has been helpful.

Well that is the thing with this type of art is that there are many different opinions on the matter.

I am not quite sure what you mean by Tark being against non-traditional representations since if you look in her gallery you will find pokeman characters drawn in pacific northwest coast native art style. Many of my drawings are of non-traditional subjects and people need to realize that art evolves just as everything else does but I also believe you need to learn the traditional stuff before you can start going into the non-traditional subjects.

One thing that you do need to realize is that what you are doing falls under the catergory of cultural appropiation. [link] This is when you take certain aspects from a culture and then the meanings are misunderstood or lost ( which is what it would be in your case, lost )

I personally am not against people experimenting with northwest art but my problem on DA is how many people label and represent their art. I believe people who are not from the culture should label their art “inspired by” and not traditional ( and I am talking native traditions here not medium )

Cultural art is a very grey area and for me personally I object and draw my line when it comes to things such as people not from the northwest culture getting tattoos or selling the art because I believe that is when they are truly taking ownership of something which is not theirs. So many people get tattoos or try and make a profit on things they do not even understand.

As an artist I understand what draws people to want to create this style of art but I disagree on how they present and mislabel it.

I am not sure if this answered your question.

Hi there. I'm wondering whether you think it would be a good idea to upload a picture of a drawing I made of a velociraptor, in formline style? It's a nice picture, and quite a few people would probably like it, but I'm concerned about people taking it as a reflection of some native culture, or expecting it to be one, when it is not really. Do you think there would be any good in posting it, other than the selfish reason of getting a couple more faves and comments?

I'm afraid to start tossing stuff out there before I really know what I'm doing or why (been talking with tarkheki). I'd like to find out more about what this art means to the kinds of societies and people who originated this overall style, but at the moment I'm rather clueless. I know enough about the visual, formal aspects of the art to be dangerous, for people to take me seriously, when I don't really have anything to say beyond "this looks cool, don't you think?"

I've talked with tarkheki about it, and asked Xaadaas - tarkheki is vehemently against any non-traditional representations, of course, and Xaadaas could hardly care less. I'm just looking for more viewpoints, because I don't know what to do yet. I'm not at all eager anymore to put that picture up, but I'm reluctant to leave it sitting in my drawing pad while there are people who've asked me to make more art in that style after seeing the Haida-lisk. And then I'm thinking that I am ethically obliged not to put it anywhere or show it to anyone, as it is in some sense an offense to the many societies that have created and refined the style for their own purposes, which this velociraptor falls completely outside of. Is there any way it might fit?

Is there any reason why I should keep doing what I'm doing?

Thanks

Thank You for you comment

When the creator gives you a gift it is right to share it with the humans.I love this genre and all that it says both in cultre and art.Regards

Thanks for adding me to your watch list. I really like your work, creating traditional art in a contemporary medium, almost shamanic in a way. I look forward to seeing more of your work.

Peace,
Will

thanx for the fav on "Wolf"! Great gallery btw

ah ok that makes sense

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Jerrod

I think you found me since I saw your name on my recent visitors lists and then went to check out your gallery.

what made you stumble across my gallery in the first place?

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I'm What Willis Was Talking About

Jerrod

Thank you for the fav...
much appreciated.
Wayne

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Yours truly,
Wayne B

Thx for the visit, its great to see other coast salish on da. I am of the snohomish tribe of washington, and i love your thunderbird design too.
e, chuf siaya.

Mark thank you so much for the fav. on "All Spawned out". Having been the inspiration behind it, I am very relieved that you liked it. Gloria

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Migwetch!

for the fav and watch!

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Kitten